Stepping out of Anwar's shadow and into Malaysia's political spotlight
Wan Azizah Wan Ismail is back in politics after winning the recent by-election in Penang's Permatang Pauh district. The seat was vacated after her husband, opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim, was sentenced to prison on sodomy charges, which many believe wer
IT’S IRONIC TO BE ASKING YOU HOW YOU WILL CARRY ON AFTER ANWAR WAS PUT BEHIND BARS, AS THIS WAS EXACTLY THE SAME QUESTION I ASKED YOU 16 YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS JAILED |THE FIRST TIME. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, AND THEN?
The situation has changed a lot, maybe for the better. We never thought that we would be able to break the [Barisan National] ruling party’s hold on the two-thirds majority in parliament and win the state government of Selangor, which is a jewel in the crown because it’s a rich state. That’s the difference. That means we have made leaps and bounds even though we didn’t get the federal government.
WITH ANWAR BEHIND BARS, THE SPOTLIGHT IS NOW ON YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER NURUL IZZAH. ARE YOU READY TO PICK UP THE MANTLE?
You have to have hope, you have to fight on. The result may or may not come in my lifetime. But at least, when you plant a seed you wait for it to grow. It may not bear fruit immediately but there will be a time when it will. I believe in that. And I have hope.
HOW MUCH LONGER WILL IT TAKE?
I do not know.
BUT DO THINGS TODAY LOOK MUCH MORE PROMISING THAN 10 YEARS AGO?
Definitely. The younger generation that grew up during the time of Reformasi 16 years ago have grown up and have matured somewhat. There are younger ones who didn’t know Anwar when he was still in the administration, but there were others who grew up during the time of the protest [after Anwar’s arrest] and some are now in important positions in the government.
HOW WAS ANWAR THE LAST TIME YOU VISITED HIM?
Anwar has never shown us that he is in any difficulty. But, of course, it has taken a toll on his health. He looks much thinner now. He is in good spirits. We actually gain strength from him. He shows us his spirit and gives us inspiration. He misses his grandkids especially. Of course, being free is different, but being behind bars doesn’t deter him. He is still full of instructions for us.
DOES HE EVER SHOW ANY SIGNS OF REGRETS?
No. Not Anwar. He would do everything again, but probably a bit differently. But not much different, in the sense that he would come back to Malaysia even though we got offers for him to go elsewhere, especially Indonesia, Turkey, or even Oxford or the US, where he was a professor.
AT A LONDON FORUM LAST YEAR, HE WAS ADVISED BY FORMER WORLD LEADERS, INCLUDING EX-US VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE AND MARY ROBINSON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF IRELAND, NOT TO COME BACK AND FACE THE PROSPECT OF BEING JAILED AGAIN. DID YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ALSO TRY TO CONVINCE HIM NOT TO RETURN?
Yes, of course. We’d rather see him free and being with us. But he said he had to prove a point. If you are not guilty, why would you want to run away? He said he wanted to stay put in his country and face the hardship for the things he believed in. He said he would keep fighting, never surrender.
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU HEARD THE VERDICT AGAINST HIM?
Disappointed, angry and frustrated. But sometimes in life, you have to make sacrifices. If this is the a price to pay for a better Malaysia, probably Anwar and our family are willing to pay for our love for our country and for the principle we stand for and the hope we have deep in our heart.
ARE YOU STILL HOPEFUL OF A ROYAL PARDON? YOUR REQUEST HAS BEEN REJECTED ONCE.
We are on course for getting a lot of signatures from ordinary people for a royal pardon for Anwar. We have another two years to ask for another pardon.
MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER NURUL IZZAH COULD BE THE NEXT TARGETS OF POLITICAL PERSECUTION. ARE YOU CONCERNED?
Probably for my daughter. For myself, they think I am rather harmless. But there are other names and political personalities, like Rafizi Ramli, (vice president of the People’s Justice Party/PKR), like our youth chief and chief minister of Selangor. And Tian Chua (another PKR vice president). They are on the hit list.
NURUL IZZAH’S ARREST AND OVERNIGHT DETENTION WAS SEEN BY MANY AS A SCARE TACTIC TO FRIGHTEN THE OPPOSITION. IS SHE SCARED? AND ARE YOU SCARED?
As a mother, of course. Being a woman, sometimes you can be overcome by physical force. But Izzah said the police who detained her were quite friendly and even asked to have photos taken with her. They even asked her to look pretty for the photos. That offers some hope. The whole event came as a sort of advertisement for us. Nurul suddenly shot to international fame without having to pay for any lobbyist groups. So that is a blessing. But it’s not easy for us, because she has children, two children. It hurts to see them being hurt in the process. But we have to toughen up against any repression.
WAS SHE SHAKEN BY THE EXPERIENCE?
Before she left jail, she mopped the floor and said that, if she was to go in again, at least it would be cleaner.
DID NURUL IZZAH WANT TO BE IN POLITICS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
When she decided to contest in the 2008 general election in a constituency against a strong and very popular minister who was chief of the women’s wing of UMNO, I said no, because as a mother I wanted to protect her. But she said, “No mom, I will contest and most probably I will lose and I will carry on with my life”. Anwar was free at the time and helped her with the campaign. And she did win, and since then she has been geared toward that kind of life.
DID YOU SUPPORT HER CANDIDACY WHOLE-HEARTEDLY?
I support whatever decisions my children make.
WHAT LESSONS HAVE YOU PASSED ON TO HER?
As I said, I can advise her. But lessons to be learned and lessons on how to react can be different for different personalities. I think she takes another line. She is more like her father.
NOW THAT ANWAR IS OUT OF THE PICTURE, WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE OPPOSITION PARTIES?
Realistically, of course we’ll probably face challenges until after June, when one of our coalition partners has its elections. We are so used to divide-and-rule tactics, with the country being compartmentalised into Malays, Muslims, non-Malay Chinese and the Indians. At the moment it may look like we are divided, but the bottom line is we all know the reality is that we all have to be together. And the future looks like we will have to have a two-party system.
THE OPPOSITION HAS MADE HISTORY BY WINNING THE MAJORITY OF VOTES BUT NOT ENOUGH SEATS TO FORM A GOVERNMENT. |CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED?
We were seen as one voice and an answer to Barisan National’s abuse and misuse of power and all the excesses. But then the election commission is not really that neutral. So the votes didn’t translate into the seats we had wanted.
WILL THE OPPOSITION PARTIES BE ABLE TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER TO MAKE ENOUGH IMPACT IN THE NEXT GENERAL |ELECTIONS IN 2018 TO MAKE REAL CHANGES?
I think so. We have two and a half years and we have so many issues [of protest against the ruling party]. We have the issue of 1Malaysia Development Fund that is hundreds of millions in debt, and we have the murder case (involving an aide to Najib Razak when he was defence minister). We have a person who admitted to murdering the Mongolian model, but who gave the order and what was the intention? And we have issue with the lavish lifestyle (of the prime minister) – with the buying of jets when we don’t have the money. And the problem with the goods and services tax, which is making ordinary people feel the pinch.
WHY HAVEN’T THE CORRUPTION SCANDALS AND CHARGES OF CRONYISM LED TO A POPULAR UPRISING?
Malaysians are nice people. They do not go on the rampage. I still believe that there is a way for peaceful changes. More and more they are giving the opposition a chance. But we need to get our act together.
WHEN ANWAR STARTED THE REFORMASI MOVEMENT, HIS PRIMARY GOAL WAS TO FIGHT AGAINST CORRUPTION AND CRONYISM IN GOVERNMENT, BUT |NOTHING SEEMS TO HAVE CHANGED. WHAT HOPE DO YOU HAVE?
I think things have changed. At least we broke the two-thirds majority (of Barisan National) and therefore they cannot pass any constitutional laws. And our auditors have reported to us excesses which are now more and more in the open. And more Malaysians are paying more attention to the reports.
DO YOU SEE ANY ELEMENTS OF PROGRESSIVE THINKING IN UMNO AND THE BARISAN NATIONAL?
Surprisingly, ex-prime minister Mahathir Mohamad is sounding more like the opposition.
HE SEEMS THE MOST VOCAL CRITIC OF THE GOVERNMENT NOW.
Exactly, so we (the opposition) can take a rest for a while I suppose. It’s surprising, and there must be something going on behind the scenes that we do not know about that made him speak out to that extent. I thought that since he was once in the administration he could get things done. But there are probably things he cannot do, so he has to come out criticising.
It helps us, but we must remember that they are together, in the sense that he is still in UMNO. I am not very happy to see that the youths in UMNO are not as progressive as I would like them to be.
DOES MAHATHIR STILL HAVE THE INFLUENCE TO BRING ABOUT CHANGES IN UMNO? HIS DECLARED GOAL IS TO UNSEAT PRIME MINISTER NAJIB RAZAK, BUT CAN HE DO IT?
I don’t know. We have to wait and see. The last time he was the one who wanted (former prime minister) Abullah Badawi out and Najib Razak in. I don’t know whether he has another person in mind. Waiting in the wings is his son (Datuk Mukhriz Mahathir) and Najib’s counsin (Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein) and the home affairs minister (Ahmad Zahid Hamidi). It will be fun to watch.
I FOLLOWED YOUR VISITS TO YOUR CONSTITUENCIES TODAY. YOU MUST HAVE MADE ALMOST A DOZEN STOPS. YOU HAVE COME A LONG WAY FROM THE DAYS WHEN YOU FIRST HIT THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL IN PENANG 16 YEARS AGO. ARE YOU USED TO THE HARSH REALITIES OF POLITICAL LIFE NOW?
I was a doctor (ophthalmologist) and I like to meet and give service to people. It’s part of what I used to do. So it’s not much of a change. It’s just a continuation of what I did, but I probably have to cover more. I think there must be policies to help, especially in small industries. Malaysia probably needs more research and development to help them. I am thinking more along that line rather than just giving out handouts.
Watch the full interview with Wan Azizah on NOW26’s “26th Hour” news programme tonight at 10.30.
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